Cannot copy text in Comments within secured document where commenting is allowed

[DIV]

I find it a bit weird that users cannot necessarily copy text in comments within a secured document for which commenting is allowed.

Thus, suppose that I download/receive a PDF file that has been secured to restrict editing, but with the allowed changes set to something like "Commenting, filling form fields, and signing existing signature fields", but without "Enable copying of text, images and other content". Thus resulting in specific permissions such as the following (a real example):

• Printing: High resolution
• Changing the document: Not allowed
• Document assembly: Not allowed
• Content copying: Not allowed
• Content copying for accessibility: Allowed
• Page extraction: Not allowed
• Commenting: Allowed
• Form field filling: Allowed
• Signing: Allowed
• Creation of template pages: Allowed

This seems to set up a weird situation where I can

• add a new comment (e.g., Text Box, Typewriter, or Callout),
• edit a Comment that I have previously added,
• edit a Comment that someone else has previously added, and
• delete a Comment;

yet I cannot copy text from within a comment.

To emphasise this, I can be midway through creating my own comment — I can type text in, and I can paste text (copied from some other document or/and application) into the comment — but while doing this I cannot copy any of that text. I cannot even copy the text that I have just typed.
Suppose I had typed two sentences into the comment, and decided to reorder them. I would have to delete one and retype it from scratch!

I suppose the application's behaviour is literally in keeping with the security setting that disallows copying of "content".
But nevertheless it does seem kind of silly when applied to fully editable comments, as in the above context.

Is this the intended behaviour?
And is it behaviour mandated by the/a PDF standard, or is it a choice of Tracker Software?

Note: it seems that Comments are treated differently from "content" in another way, because I can duplicate a comment object in its entirety!
Note: I can't do that by separate Copy and Paste operations, because I am unable to Copy the comment object. However, I can press <Ctrl> while left-mouse-button dragging the comment object to duplicate it within the same document.
Is there any analogous workaround to duplicate selected text within a comment inside the same document/comment?

[Dimitar - PDF-XChange]

Hello DIV,

This behavior is dictated by the PDF specifications.

It makes little sense to prohibit copying content and then somehow allow users to copy parts of it.

[DIV]

Thanks for your input, Dimitar.
If it's set by the specification, then I can't quibble with Tracker Software for implementing it.

However, I still disagree on the philosophical point of whether or not it makes sense!

What is the motivation for the security settings?

• To ensure that the underlying content isn't changed (to provide confidence to readers) ...
  ... while comments and other annotations can be freely added!
• To ensure that portions of the underlying content aren't duplicated...
  ... but there is no justification for the original authors to restrict me from reproducing my own text, or indeed anything else that they haven't created themselves!

In practice, I'm not allowed to "change" the document, yet I can add, edit or delete Comment objects. Clearly those involve changes to the PDF file, but they can be allowed because Comments are treated as different from the underlying "content".

• I cannot add new pages, nor images, nor page-text. But I can add new comments, or add new text to existing comments.
• I cannot edit existing pages, nor images, nor page-text. But I can edit text in existing comments.
• I cannot delete pages, nor images, nor page-text. But I can delete comments, as well as selected text within them.
• I cannot duplicate pages (with <Ctrl>+drag), nor images, nor page-text. But I can duplicate comments. (Note: I don't seem to be able to duplicate text within comments, but I believe that is only because of lacking functionality — it is not possible in unsecured documents either — rather than a security restriction.)
• Off topic: I cannot "reassemble" the document as a new PDF file (that wouldn't have the original security settings), but I can achieve something similar by high-resolution print-to-pdf :-p

So although I cannot copy pages, nor images, nor page-text, philosophically I don't think it must automatically follow that I shouldn't be able to copy comments — or text within comments.

I feel this especially so in the case of comments that I have composed myself. If I have written the text myself (after the document was secured!), then why should I be restricted from copying my own composition (written after the document was secured)???
However, the security settings do not distinguish between the current user and the original author of a comment. Therefore, given that I have free rein to do whatever I want to other people's comments, then I should be able to copy them, and the text in them, too.

In conclusion, maybe the specification is poorly written, or maybe there is yet scope in the interpretation to 'improve' the behaviour.

[rakunavi]

Hello all,

I totally agree with @DIV.

In ISO 32000-1:2008, p. 61, Section 7.6.3.2, Table 22 below seems to be the relevant provision for this topic, and I think the security setting that @DIV presented in his first post corresponds to the situation where the 5th bit prohibits copying of content and the 6th bit allows the addition and modification of text annotations. However, the 5th bit provision only refers to "text and graphics," meaning the base content, and it might be a bit unreasonable to interpret the copy prohibition to apply to text annotations as well.

• figure.png

For reference, in the following verification video, for each of PDF-XChange Editor, Adobe Acrobat Reader, and Foxit PDF Editor, I attempted to copy and paste text within a text comment, and then copy and paste the comment object itself. Adobe Acrobat Reader and Foxit PDF Editor allow free copying and pasting of text within the annotation, as well as the annotation object itself, but PDF-XChange Editor does not allow either due to limitations.

• sample.pdf

PDFXCE_Acrobat.webm

FoxitPDFEditor.webm

Best regards,
rakunavi

- PDF-XChange Editor PRO Version: 10.6.0 build 396
- Adobe Acrobat Reader Continuous Release Version 2025.001.20531
- Foxit PDF Editor Pro 13.1.2.22442
- OS Version: Windows 11 Pro / Home 24H2 Build 26100.4349
- PC Model: GMKtec Nucbox M7 Pro with HUION Kamvas Pro 19 / Lenovo IdeaPad C340-15IWL

[DIV]

Excellent detective work, rakunavi!

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, all

Sorry for the delay, I cannot speak to the interpretation/intent here, but I have raised the aforementioned points to the Dev team for review. The decision is up to them if this will change or not.

Kind regards,

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello again

A quick update on this, with some more details than normal. Our Dev team is reaching out to the PDF Association about this one.

After some extended testing, while we were able to reproduce what you said, with Acrobat working differently than us. We were also able to replicate it doing the inverse (working the same way we do), with the same document, running the same build of Acrobat, on other devices, all with the same settings in place... and we are very much insure why there is a discrepancy in their handling here.

Hopefully the Association will be able to clear things up and we can make a decision from there. As such, the ticket I have created today is a bit different than normal. It is not (yet) a bug or FR ticket, but is simply a continued investigation tracking item. If it turns out our handling is incorrect, we will upgrade this to a bug ticket, and if not, it will be closed without fanfare later on.

RT#7577: Investigation: copy - disallowed, commenting - allowed

Kind regards,

[DIV]

Dear Dan,
thanks for the feedback, and it seems like a very reasonable immediate course of action to consult with the PDF Association to determine the intended behaviour according to the current specification.

In the event that the intended behaviour according to the current specification is to block copying of all text (regardless of whether it's base content or annotations), then kudos to your team for following it to the letter... ...but, I hope that the specification would eventually be updated for the more natural behaviour 'expected' by users such as myself and rakunavi.

By the way, I really commend PDF-XChange Co. Ltd. (Tracker Software) for their responsiveness to feedback like this, and transparency about it. It builds trust and — I believe — yields a superior product.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, DIV

Agreed, seeing the spec evolve to account for new uses is always nice to see. In many cases, when we need to reach out like this, it is a simple case of an unpredicted use case, and so there is no immediate answer. It may be that they add a new term for this, or clarify the definitions in the next iteration of the spec.

Only time will tell

Kind regards,