Generating multi-level bookmarks from page text - how? SOLVED

[gwideman]

Hi all,

I have been able to use the Generate Bookmarks from Page Text dialog to create two rules, which indeed result in all the criteria-meeting snippets of page text producing bookmarks. But I can't figure out how to make the second rule produce child bookmarks of the first rule.

Evidently what we are supposed to do is a maneuver depicted in this previous thread: viewtopic.php?t=34439

"To create multi-level bookmarks, you simply need to add multiple levels of bookmark detection patterns to the dialog:"


... but I can't find any UI to either indent Level 2 or make it a child of Level 1. What is the method?

NOTE: The attached screen cap is from the article I referenced. This is the parent-child bookmark effect I want. It is not an image of what I currently have.

Thanks.

[Willy Van Nuffel]

Hi,

When you are in the "Generate Bookmarks From Page Text"-dialog-box (via the Bookmarks-ribbon and the button/icon "From Page Text"), you see the "Add..." button. Via that Add...-button you can add a rule to the list. One by one.

The first line/rule will stand for Level 1, the second line/rule will stand for Level 2, and so on ...

When you create a rule, you must indicate what is specific for the corresponding level.
You can specify the Font, Size, Color, ...

For example:
- Level 1 can be Arial Bold, 14 point
- Level 2 can be Arial Bold, 12 point
- Level 3 can be Arial regular, 10 point

When you finally click OK, the Bookmarks should be generated.

Does that help ?

Kind regards.
°

PDF-XChange Editor - Generate Bookmarks From Page Text.png

[Sean - PDF-XChange]

Thanks for help here Willy.

Kind regards,

[gwideman]

Does that help ?

Not really. You just recounted all the things that, as I described, I already know how to do.

What I don't know how to do is to make the second rule into a child of the first rule. Ie: I want the bookmarks generated by the second rule to be children of bookmarks generated by the first rule.

I am encouraged that you apparently know how to do this, because I see in your screen cap that you have both your rules and bookmarks indented to indicate parent-child relationship.

Now, please, tell us how you did that! Thanks!

Also, to be clear, this is not primarily about creating just the appearance of indentation of the subsidiary bookmarks. There has to be an actual relationship that underlies the bookmark panel's expand/collapse buttons ("disclosure chevrons").

[Willy Van Nuffel]

Hi,

There is no way to tell that the second rule will create child-bookmarks of those created by the first rule.
That is just by design. That is just how it works.

The text-objects that correspond to the criteria of the first rule will become parent-bookmarks (level 1).
The text-objects that correspond to the criteria of the second rule will automatically become child-bookmarks (level 2).

The expand/collapse buttons will also automatically become available in the tree-structure in the Bookmarks-panel.

If the explanation of how it works is still not clear, just give it a try, or post an example PDF here in this topic.

Can you also tell us which version of PDF-XChange Editor you are currently using (see Help-ribbon > About).

Kind regards.

[Sean - PDF-XChange]

Thanks for the clarification here Willy.

Kind regards,

[gwideman]

Hi,

There is no way to tell that the second rule will create child-bookmarks of those created by the first rule.
That is just by design. That is just how it works.

The text-objects that correspond to the criteria of the first rule will become parent-bookmarks (level 1).
The text-objects that correspond to the criteria of the second rule will automatically become child-bookmarks (level 2).

The expand/collapse buttons will also automatically become available in the tree-structure in the Bookmarks-panel.

If the explanation of how it works is still not clear, just give it a try, or post an example PDF here in this topic.

Can you also tell us which version of PDF-XChange Editor you are currently using (see Help-ribbon > About).

Kind regards.

I really appreciate you spelling that out, as it is exactly contrary to what I am seeing. I am using version 10.8.5 build 410, downloaded a couple of days ago, which I believe is the latest non-retracted version. It is at the moment unlicensed "trial" version, but as I understand it, the only difference that makes is to add a watermark.

What I see is shown in the accompanying screen cap.

pdfxchange_2level_not_nesting.png

Here, I created, in sequence, two rules, each time by clicking the +Add button (and then filling in the criteria).

The key problem is that in the Generate Bookmarks dialog left panel, the second rule is NOT subsidiary to to the first one, and there is no visible indentation like you have in your screen cap.

The result of applying these rules is that the bookmark items included from the two rules are in one flat list. The items from the second rule are not children of those from the first list.

So your use of the software somehow presents a different experience than mine does!

[rakunavi]

Hello gwideman and Willy. Please excuse me for chipping in.

Immediately after you set up the first rule, that rule should be selected by default, as shown below. If you add a new rule while that first rule is still selected, it will be configured as a child rule (for child bookmarks).

• figure1.png

On the other hand, if you deselect it first—by clicking on the blank background area, for example—and then add a rule, it will be added in parallel with the first rule (at the same hierarchy level).

• figure2.png

Furthermore, regardless of how you initially added them, you can always drag and drop the rules afterward to freely change their hierarchy, just like you would manage the bookmarks pane.

I have created a short video demonstrating these operations below. I hope this helps!

• Animation.gif

Best regards,
rakunavi

- PDF-XChange Editor PRO Version: 11.0.0
- OS Version: Windows 11 Pro / Home 25H2 Build 26200.8457
- PC Model: GMKtec Nucbox M7 Pro with HUION Kamvas Pro 19 / Lenovo IdeaPad C340-15IWL

[gwideman]

Hello gwideman and Willy. Please excuse me for chipping in.

No apology needed -- you have finally provided the vital missing information!

So far as I can tell, this information is not in the manual, and absolutely should be. The UI steps you describe, while simple, are utterly undiscoverable from the UI alone, except by complete accident.

> Immediately after you set up the first rule, that rule should be selected by default, as shown below.
> If you add a new rule while that first rule is still selected, it will be configured as a child rule (for child bookmarks).

It's good to know that, but given the likelihood that the styles for each rule may be chosen by selecting text from the PDF, and that requires exiting the dialog, it's highly likely that the first rule won't happen to be selected when the user returns to the dialog to create the second rule, and thus this feature won't make itself known.

> Furthermore, regardless of how you initially added them,
> you can always drag and drop the rules afterward to freely change their
> hierarchy,

Yes, THIS is the crucial piece of information! The manual page dealing with generating bookmarks from page text needs to cover this.

> just like you would manage the bookmarks pane.

Except that doesn't appear to be covered in the manual either.

Anyhow, thanks rakunavi !

[PHK]

@gwideman.

"The manual page dealing with generating bookmarks from page text needs to cover this."

Fair point. The manual tends (i) to lag update enhancements and (ii) is not 100% comprehensive.

With regard to (i), I am happy to live with that as I would rather have the enhancements as soon as possible and usually there is some documentation in the release notes or Forum chats that are referenced.

With regard to (ii), in fairness there are so many subtle capabilities of the product which I hope you as new user will come to appreciate, many of which are serendipitous and unintended by the developers, that it might be too much for a completely comprehensive manual. On the other hand, searching the Forum for topics of interest is very useful in filling in some of the gaps.

IMHO, the Manual strikes a fair balance between comprehensiveness and bloat. The Bible is somewhat like that. Or vice versa.

[gwideman]

@gwideman.
The manual tends (i) to lag update enhancements and (ii) is not 100% comprehensive.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment, and it's good to hear the level of affection you have for the product -- that's a good sign.

That said, this is hardly a "latest enhancement" -- the forum thread that I referenced that displayed the parent-child bookmark rules feature (but didn't explain how to operate it) is from October 2020. That's 23 internet years ago!

With regard to (ii), in fairness there are so many subtle capabilities of the product which I hope you as new user will come to appreciate,

Within the "Generate Bookmarks", the ability to impose a hierarchy on them is a core requirement, not a "subtle capability".

Sure, I can appreciate in-depth features (and there is much to like about PDF-XChange), but I also appreciate that wonderful features that are both missing discoverablity in the UI, and are not documented, might as well not be there for users, such as myself, who will use many different software packages as occasional tools.

> that it might be too much for a completely comprehensive manual. IMHO, the Manual strikes a fair
> balance between comprehensiveness and bloat. The Bible is somewhat like that. Or vice versa.
[/quote]

Well, it's a bit off topic, but.... the manual, while quite lengthy and detailed (despite omitting the crucial info on this particular topic) could be slimmed down considerably by editing out a lot of needless visual noise and repetition, such as "The Page Zoom toolbar is used to determine the zoom level", or documentation of the many buttons on a dialog, consisting of bullet points all starting with "Click [named button] to..." Probably we don't need to be told that Click is the way to operate a button, and meanwhile, the actual function, the thing the user might be looking to do, is visually buried later in the sentence... though, disappointingly, the eye, having found the actual content, discovers it's little more than a repetition of the name of the button.

That style of documentation follows an algorithm (explicit or implicit) to conscientiously ensure something is said about every single conspicuous element on the UI. But it doesn't coherently organize the presentation around typical workflow that the user might reasonably want to perform, and describe what considerations there are, and what steps with which UI elements would be involved to accomplish the task. So, good job mentioning every UI element. But this (a) leaves it up to the user to figure out how to compose UI steps into a complete accomplishment, and (b) fails to uncover areas where information for completing the task has been overlooked.

This is the situation with the Generate Bookmarks docs. There is no discussion of "when you generate bookmarks from text, here are typical workflows you would follow [blah blah blah] ... and you will probably want multiple levels of bookmarks, which you can arrange using these UI maneuvers". Instead, there's no obvious UI element associated with making the bookmarks hierarchical (for example indent arrows), so the "document every UI element" doc procedure didn't find anything to document. (Obviously a bit of speculation on my part... from other experiences!)

Regardless, it is what it is, and I'll continue to refine my "appreciation" as I go along

Thanks again for your encouraging comments.

[PHK]

@gwideman: My post was not meant to address your specific issues with Bookmarks, sorry if I did not make that clear.

I accept that the online manual is imperfect. But, given the choice, I would rather have a great operating application with a C+ manual than a crap app with an A- manual. Recognizing that the company has limited resources, I think they tend to make the right choices.

[Sean - PDF-XChange]

Hi gwideman/PHK,

Thanks for the feedback on the manual - I am continually trying to improve it, and I have taken your points on board. The manual style/approach has recently changed, and the new style of manual will be published and available soon. As far the Generate Bookmarks from Page Text feature is concerned, I quite simply was not aware of the functionality that Rakunavi pointed out above, and I will add it to the manual as soon as possible.

Kind regards,

[PHK]

... The manual style/approach has recently changed, and the new style of manual will be published and available soon.
...

Thanks, Sean, looking forward to it.

[Sean - PDF-XChange]

[gwideman]

Hi gwideman/PHK,

Thanks for the feedback on the manual - I am continually trying to improve it, and I have taken your points on board. The manual style/approach has recently changed, and the new style of manual will be published and available soon.

Thanks for your comments, Sean, and best wishes on your manual revision.

[Sean - PDF-XChange]