Improvement: Page resize dialog

[FelixPDF]

This is a request for improving the page resize dialog.

Problem: The current PDF-XChange Editor (Version: 10.4.3, build 391) ...

• does no longer provide the 'current' page size as initial field values or as a separat information in the dialog. Would be best, if current values would be displayed as initial values AND next to the respective input box.

• misses the feature to set the page dimensions of current/new page to the size common page size of a document.

[lev]

• You can enable Page Size/Position, so it shows up along the bottom of the window to the left

• My Resize Page window looks quite different from yours and common page sizes are available from a pull-down list. Are you sure you are using the latest build?

[Dimitar - PDF-XChange]

Thanks for your input Lev.

Indeed, in the latest version this menu looks different than the one shown above.

[FelixPDF]

I use the latest version (Version: 10.4.4, build 392),

the problem is specific to the shown "custom" tab, the problem is, that the initial values are not the current page dimensions AND that the current page dimensions are not presented at all times in the dialog.

best regards

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello FelixPDF,

You can click on

Type : By Page, and then "Page: Current" and that will allow you to grab the dimensions of that said current page and then apply that size when resizing your other pages.

I presume this is what you were looking for?

Kind regards,
Stefan

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Hello FelixPDF,

You can click on
image.png Type : By Page, and then "Page: Current" and that will allow you to grab the dimensions of that said current page and then apply that size when resizing your other pages.

I presume this is what you were looking for?

Kind regards,
Stefan

There are two ways the initial values of the width and height of the page can be set when selecting "custom." The current method is to set them at the last used custom values. This is good if you want to resize multiple documents to the same custom size. You open each document, select resize, custom, and the previously used values are already entered.

The other method is to set the width and height to the dimensions of the active page of the document. This is good if you want to adjust one dimension of a page to a specific size while locking the ratio so the other dimension is adjusted proportionally. For example, if I have a bunch of long documents (in my case, screenshots of web pages) I want to resize to A4, then I would prefer that the default width and height be set to the size of the document. This makes it easy for me to change the width of the document from the actual value to 21 cm and the height will adjust automatically (and proportionally as long as the dimensions are linked). I now have a document that is 21 cm wide and some indeterminate length. I can then split the document using either the split pages feature or split by guidelines feature into separate A4 sized pages.

I'm not sure which method is used more. I use the latter method more but I could see people using the former method often if they have lots of documents they want to resize to the same custom size.

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap,

Thanks for your comments as well!
I am certain both methods have their use cases and applications so happy that one of those works in your case!

Kind regards,
Stefan

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Hello mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap,

Thanks for your comments as well!
I am certain both methods have their use cases and applications so happy that one of those works in your case!

Kind regards,
Stefan

The question is which method should be the default. I think Felix is advocating for the second method to be the default—i.e., the current page dimensions should be the default width and height values when custom is selected. Honestly, I'd prefer that as well. However, my previous comment acknowledges that perhaps other prefer to have the default be the last used width and height values instead of the current page dimensions.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Indeed, it is hard to say which would be better. Considering the REsize dialogues ability to retain the last used settings (meaning if you choose "by page > selected/current", that option will remain in place) You can achieve the previous handling without needing to custom field to be constantly updated. This allows for the best of both worlds, where the size used is always detemined by what you have selected, and if you wish to revert to a specific custom value you have manually entered in the past, you always have that option.

I do not expect this will be changing, given the ability to select an option which achieves the desired result already exists with the new system, minus the direct display of the dimensions in editable "custom value" fields.

Kind regards,

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Considering the REsize dialogues ability to retain the last used settings (meaning if you choose "by page > selected/current", that option will remain in place) You can achieve the previous handling without needing to custom field to be constantly updated.

Does this work for you? Because I cannot get it to work for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've added a video below.

[David.P]

I agree. There are some severe bugs in the resize pages dialog. I almost never can get it to work as intended. It always seems to do something completely different, no matter how hard and how long I try.

Granted, the resize pages dialog is incredibly powerful. However, it's so overwhelming in functionality already, and if then additionally it doesn't work as expected, it makes you want to pull your hair out.

Only as an example below, I must have tried about a dozen times to make page 1427 somewhat wider to the left, however, it always would increase the page size in both directions (or something). Also, why is there two boxes where you have to choose the "Current" page? Anyway, with this dialog (and its bugs) I am regularly hitting my limits

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Only as an example below, I must have tried about a dozen times to make page 1427 somewhat wider to the left, however, it always would increase the page size in both directions (or something). Also, why is there two boxes where you have to choose the "Current" page? Anyway, with this dialog (and its bugs) I am regularly hitting my limits

When I use your settings on a more modest document (18 pages), it works as expected—i.e., it adds 55 mm to the left side of chosen page.

However, it does appear that when "Growth" is selected, the "Page" setting directly below it is ignored. I tried changing the Page setting in a number of ways and it did not affect the result. If the Page setting is ignored when Growth is selected, then the UI should be changed to make the Page setting blank (or show something like N/A, not applicable, or —).

Edit to add: it appears that the Scale setting uses the Page setting just below it to define the resulting size. So, for example, if I set it to Scale, the Page setting to a different page that is 26.5 x 29.7 cm, and the percentage to reduce the width by 50%, then it will change the width of the page(s) selected in the "Page Range" box to 13.5 cm. So, I guess the Page setting works when Scale is selected. It just doesn't seem to do anything when Growth is selected.

One more edit: while I would like to see the bugs fixed and any simplifications to the UI made that can be made, I really like the new UI compared to the old one. And the resize feature is one of the killer features of PDF-XChange that I use the most. As a power resize user, I love it and cannot imagine life without it.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Does this work for you? Because I cannot get it to work for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've added a video below

I think you may have misunderstood, What I described is shown working in the video you sent. After you click "OK" resulting in the dlg closing, the next time it opens, the same option as before is selected.
I was in no way saying that the "custom" page size should be updated by selecting "current", quite the opposite in fact, I was trying to convey that these two being entirely separate is a feature, allowing you to have your "custom" value remain unchanged from the last time you manually defined it, even if you want to normalize the page size of 17 other docuemnts between uses, the "selected" or "current" page options can be used on each of those files, and then when you return to your main project, and specifically need a 172x200cm document, that "custom" value text is still in place, and unchanged.

why is there two boxes where you have to choose the "Current" page?

The context is important here. The top is you defining the desired size of the output, the lower is picking which pages you want to apply the resize action to:

However, it does appear that when "Growth" is selected, the "Page" setting directly below it is ignored

I Could not reproduce any issues on this front. It may be that the defined "size" was smaller than the target page size you had defined? When testing this with various documents, including one of over 4000 pages, as per the earlier report, the resize happened flawlessly:

I added page numbers and backgrounds to showcase the resultant "new space". Switching the "page range" settings so that page 15 was affected resulted in the exact same output, on the defined page (15).

I am not sure what is being done wrong here, but as far as I can tell this is working as expected.

it appears that the Scale setting uses the Page setting just below it to define the resulting size

Once again, this seems to be working as expected, Here i have intentionally made page 4116 twice as large as 4115, and left page 4114's earlier resize in place. As you can see, page 4115 comes out at 75% of its own original size:

while I would like to see the bugs fixed and any simplifications to the UI made that can be made, I really like the new UI compared to the old one

I am very glad to hear you like the new UI, relating to bug fixes. I am fairly certain based on my research above, that there are no bugs of the reported nature here, but there are some learning opportunities.
As for simplification, I think you will find that simplifying this any further would require taking away some of the functions. It is a standard "top down" setting selection area, where you choose the "settings category" (in this case, the "by page, standard, scale, growth, custom) then you define the specific settings for that category (desired size, or target to use to inherit/manipulate that size), before carrying on to the next area.

I hope this helps to explain things a bit more clearly, so you two can make the most of these powerful new improvements.

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Does this work for you? Because I cannot get it to work for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've added a video below

I think you may have misunderstood, What I described is shown working in the video you sent. After you click "OK" resulting in the dlg closing, the next time it opens, the same option as before is selected.
I was in no way saying that the "custom" page size should be updated by selecting "current", quite the opposite in fact, I was trying to convey that these two being entirely separate is a feature, allowing you to have your "custom" value remain unchanged from the last time you manually defined it, even if you want to normalize the page size of 17 other docuemnts between uses, the "selected" or "current" page options can be used on each of those files, and then when you return to your main project, and specifically need a 172x200cm document, that "custom" value text is still in place, and unchanged.

I see what you are saying. However, that does not provide "the best of both worlds" if "both worlds" mean the two use cases I described previously (perhaps you meant something else by both worlds). The first use case is to have the height and width persist in the custom setting from the last time it was entered. This is what it currently does, and I can see the use case for it. The second use case is to have the height and width in the custom setting default to the actual dimensions of the document (this allows me to link the height and width together, change the width to 21 cm, and have the height adjust automatically without manually entering the height and width for each document). I don't see how the functionality is best for this latter use case.

BTW, I'm not necessarily advocating for another change to the resize dialog, but it would be nice if there was yet another button off to the right of the height and width boxes when custom is selected (there is already the link button and the swap button so this would be a third button) that when pressed would enter the actual dimensions of the selected page into the height and width boxes. This would address my second use case above.

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

However, it does appear that when "Growth" is selected, the "Page" setting directly below it is ignored

I Could not reproduce any issues on this front. It may be that the defined "size" was smaller than the target page size you had defined? When testing this with various documents, including one of over 4000 pages, as per the earlier report, the resize happened flawlessly:

I am not sure what is being done wrong here, but as far as I can tell this is working as expected.

I cannot reproduce the behavior I was seeing yesterday. However, I'm getting slightly different weird behavior.
Use this file.

11452874.pdf

(2.46 MiB) Downloaded 24 times

.
Do the following with it:

.
Page 4 is now 26.5 cm wide. Now try growing the size of page 5 using the following settings:

.
It appears to have made the page bigger, but the bar at the bottom of the page shows the dimensions changed from this:

image(3).png (1.42 KiB) Viewed 1465 times

to this:

image(2).png (2.45 KiB) Viewed 1465 times

.
The width of the page is actually 32 cm not height, and the height of the page is actually 29.7 cm. I could see it switching the width and height like it did if the page was rotated, but the orientation did not change.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Thank you for that report, I have managed to reproduce this issue. The strangest part is how it is not even using the input value of +5.5cm on either side, instead only adding 11 cm to the incorrect dimension?
This is now in the hands of the Dev team for another investigation.

With some further personal testing just before I post here, adding 11cm to the base page size in this file causes the same to occur in one step, and I am very much unsure why this would be happening.

Kind regards,

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Thank you for that report, I have managed to reproduce this issue. The strangest part is how it is not even using the input value of +5.5cm on either side, instead only adding 11 cm to the incorrect dimension?
This is now in the hands of the Dev team for another investigation.
Kind regards,

LOL. It's very confusing. However, I'm pretty sure it's working correctly other than the height and width on page 5 get switched.
For example, the first transformation increases the width of page 4 by 5.5 cm—i.e., it is now W: 26.5 cm and H: 29.7 cm. The second transformation changes the width of page 5 based on the new dimensions of page 4. In other words, it should make page 5 be the size of page 4 plus an extra 5.5 cm of width—i.e., W:32 cm and H: 29.7 cm. As best I can tell, it does actually make page 5 this size. However, the odd part is that somehow the width and height shown in the bottom bar get flipped so it reads W:29.7 cm and H:32 cm when it should read W:32 cm and H: 29.7 cm.

The current settings allow scaling or growing the size of certain pages based on the size of one or more different pages. This is very complicated and unintuitive behavior. I cannot imagine a scenario where I would use something like that. In fact, most people who would want to do this would likely do it in two steps: (1) resize the target page based on the size of the reference page and (2) grow the size of the target page. Both steps are easy to do with the resize pages tool.
 
I don't know how others feel, but it seems like it might be better to change the scale and growth settings to remove the Page selection and make them simpler. I created some mockups of what they would look like below:

.

.
And since I am making mockups, here is one that shows the extra button under custom that I suggested adding above. When pressed, the button will enter the page size of the current page into the height and width boxes.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

WE did finally find the cause. The "orientation" simply being an option for these settings is the root of the issue. The solution... (this may surprise you) simply remove those options, in practice, they serve no purpose for the "scale/growth" function, beyond forcing the issue you ran into today to occur.

With them removed, the "scale" or "growth" actions will both simply operate exactly as it says on the box (bonus points, as you requested, we are simplifying the menu, [in exactly the way I jokingly predicted]!)

As for your request to remove the page selection from these items, that is unlikely to happen, there are a handful of specific use cases which had been requested in the past which went into development of this.

The latter item, to have a clickable "pull current page into custom" option, may be something we can do, and I will pass it along for consideration.

Kind regards,

[David.P]

I wholeheartedly agree with mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap's suggestions and mockups.

Beyond fixing the bugs in the page resize dialog, I think simplifying it and making it clearer would be a huge improvement. Right now, the Page Resize Dialog is probably one of the most difficult features to navigate in PDF-XChange Editor.

Honestly, I think even rocket scientists (and at least some of the p*tent att*rneys present in this thread) would scratch their heads trying to figure out the Page Resize Dialog in its current form.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, David.P

Some would say the same about our Search, or even just the preferences menu's. But as with anything new, time is all it takes to get used to some changes. This UI will become quite simple to you as time goes on, I promise you. But unfortunately as was already said, simplification cannot occur without stripping out functions. The "orientation" which caused this bug was a mistaken implementation, not something that was ever intended to be part of this ui, but most of the others, and in particular the page selection options the both of you are requesting to see removed, as vital functions for some of our other users, so there is no chance of them being removed.

We will do a careful comb over the options to see what/if anything else like this orientation item was mistakenly included where otherwise unnecessary, but I can confidently say we will not be removing the page selection options from either of the two menus which serve distinct and very different purposes.

Kind regards,

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

The "orientation" which caused this bug was a mistaken implementation, not something that was ever intended to be part of this ui, but most of the others, and in particular the page selection options the both of you are requesting to see removed, as vital functions for some of our other users, so there is no chance of them being removed.

If the page selection options are something others use, then that's fine. If the options stay, however, what does it mean to select the page selection "All" when using the scale and growth type of resizing, especially if the other pages in the document vary in size? For example, let's say page 1 is Letter size and page 2 is A4 and I scale page 3 and select Page: "All". How is page 3 scaled? Is it scaled based on the size of page 1, page 2, some combination of the two, magic, etc.

I can at least understand what it means when the Page selection is set to first, current, last, or custom (as long as custom is a single page), but I cannot figure out how it would work if it was set to All.

[David.P]

Thank you Daniel, however I still can't for the life of me figure out what the top row of page selection does or should be good for:

For a reason that's totally beyond me, the exact same dialog has become even more complicated now that I have opened it on another machine:

PS: Oh, I can see now that probably all pat*nt attorn*ys attending this thread can't figure out the page resize dialog.

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Thank you Daniel, however I still can't for the life of me figure out what the top row of page selection does or should be good for:

My understanding is that it is used to set the size to which the paper is scaled or grows. For example, consider a document that has three pages and page 1 is 20X20cm and pages 3 and 4 are each 10X10cm. The user wants to simultaneously change the size of page 3 to be the size of page 1 but with an extra 10 cm on the left side. The user would then select Type: Growth, Page: First, and the left Delta as 10 cm. The Page setting indicates the base size that should be grown (i.e., 20x20cm, which is the size of page 1) and the delta setting indicates the width should be grown by adding 10 cm. The placement option indicates the current content should be positioned on the right side of the resulting page–i.e., page 3 will include white space on the left side (although that depends on the content scale options).

Yeah, it's complicated. And there is no way I'll ever remember this. I'll just do the two-step version where I first resize page 3 using the "By Page" option to be the same as page 1 and then grow the width of page 3 by 10 cm (i.e., when using growth, leave the page setting to current and set the delta to 10 cm).

For a reason that's totally beyond me, the exact same dialog has become even more complicated now that I have opened it on another machine:

Yeah, I noticed this as well. Sometimes the page selection shows a row of options and other times it shows a drop down menu. For me, it usually shows a row of options. The drop down menu only appears sporadically (I could not reproduce it just now while messing with it).

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello,

Sorry, was my explanation (and image) previously, not clear on that side of things?

The context is important here. The top is you defining the desired size of the output, the lower is picking which pages you want to apply the resize action to.

As a more useful example, A very common request, was the resize pages so that every page was the same size as the "first" page in the document. Commonly people merging files end up with documents that have a handful of slightly different sized pages.
In this case, you would use the "scale" or "by page" option, and specify that you want to base the output, on "page 1".
Then in the lower portion of the dialogue, you are defining what pages you wish to apply the above options to. You cna choose to only change the size of page 5, or you can change the size of all pages in the document.
In this example, we choose "all" pages here, so that every page in the file resizes to the exact same dimensions as page 1.

As for the "row vs dropdown" situation, that would be related to the presence of extra buttons in the bar. When more functions are present, there isn't enough space to fit it all in one straight row.

Kind regards,

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

As a more useful example, A very common request, was the resize pages so that every page was the same size as the "first" page in the document. Commonly people merging files end up with documents that have a handful of slightly different sized pages.
In this case, you would use the "scale" or "by page" option, and specify that you want to base the output, on "page 1".

The use case you describe is covered with the "by page" option. The only time someone would do something like this with "scale" is if they wanted to make the other pages some percentage (e.g., 50%) of the size of the "first" page in a single step (as opposed to first changing the page size to match the "first" page using the "by page" option then scaling the pages (e.g., 50%) using the scale option). I guess people want to do all this in one step because you are saying they do. I'm just having a hard time imagining a scenario where they do this often enough that: (1) it is worth the cognitive load to figure out the resize options (versus doing the much more intuitive two-step method I described) and (2) repeating it often enough not to forget how the options work (I can guarantee that six months from now, I will have forgotten how the Page settings work with scale and growth because it is not intuitive; I'll probably have to look up this thread to remind myself how to use them ).

[David.P]

I agree again with what mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap is saying. I also can't imagine resizing pages the way mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap puts it here.

However, of course this is probably valid as well: "I guess people want to do all this in one step because you [Daniel] are saying they do".

In the following, a few thoughts on the five different general modes of the Resize Pages dialog:

1st, "By Page": This is mostly clear. We resize the page range specified in the Page Range (middle) section of the dialog by exactly one certain page of the file that we specify in the Paper Size (top section) of the dialog.

2nd, "Standard": This is easy and probably has been like this for years. We simply specify a new paper size in the Paper Size (top section) of the dialog that is then applied to all pages of the Page Range (middle) section of the dialog.

3rd, "Scale": Here is where things start to become unclear. What the "Scale" mode probably is supposed to do is scale the pages specified in the Page Range (middle) section of the dialog by a certain page that we specify under "Page" in the Paper Size (top section) of the dialog.

However, first, the second row then should not be called "Page" but "By Page".
It's not clear what this row means or does if it's called "Page" and not "By Page".
With the current wording, the top of the dialog actually reads "Scale page(s) XYZ…" which is clearly not what it's doing.

Additionally, how is the new page size going to be calculated if we scale by "All" pages in the second row?

4th, " Growth": Similarly as above at "Scale". The second row should be called "By Page" and not "Page" in order to make clear what it does.

Again, how is the new page size going to be calculated if we "Grow" our selected Page Range by "All" pages in the second row?

5th, "Custom" is again straightforward, classic, and clear. We resize a selected Page Range as specified in the middle of the dialog to the exact size that we specify at "Paper Size" in the top of the dialog.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, David.P

Perhaps it would help if the "headers" of each category were labeled as:
"Desired sheet size"
and
"Apply to page/range(s)"

As for the other suggested text changes, I cannot promise anything, but I can at least forward them to the team.

as for this specific question (and the similar one following it):

Additionally, how is the new page size going to be calculated if we scale by "All" pages in the second row?

"All" in the upper section, essentially records a separate value for each page, allowing you to do something like this:

image(1).png (29.75 KiB) Viewed 1321 times

Keeping page 2 intact at its original size, and resizing both page 1 and page 3, which are different sizes, down to 25% of their own original value.
Similarly with Growth, it takes each page individually, and them modifies that original pages value by the growth value directly.

Kind regards,

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, again

A quick review on our discussions so far (note this is not a confirmation, this is still very much just a concept discussion).
I still cannot make any promises, but a possible change we could make to clarify what is happening is re-ordering the modals in this dlg, along with a slight description/title change.

One proposed new layout, with the "new names" that could be used would be:
1. Select pages to be resized (currently in slot 3)
2. Resize options: (currently in slot 1)
3. Placement options (currently in slot 2)
4. Content Scale options (Currently in slot 4)
Essentially, this, with some text updates to clarify what each category/modal area is intended to be used for.

Kind regards,

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

Hello, again

A quick review on our discussions so far (note this is not a confirmation, this is still very much just a concept discussion).
I still cannot make any promises, but a possible change we could make to clarify what is happening is re-ordering the modals in this dlg, along with a slight description/title change.

One proposed new layout, with the "new names" that could be used would be:
1. Select pages to be resized (currently in slot 3)
2. Resize options: (currently in slot 1)
3. Placement options (currently in slot 2)
4. Content Scale options (Currently in slot 4)
Essentially, this, with some text updates to clarify what each category/modal area is intended to be used for.
Kind regards,

It seems that many other menus (e.g., rasterize pages, ocr pages, enhance scanned pages,) have the select pages box at the top like you are suggesting doing with resize pages. I would support this change just for that reason. There is something elegant about menus that have the same options in the same location and performing the same functions. It reduces the cognitive load required to use the software. I support it just for that reason.

However, I think it also makes sense from the standpoint of it creating a more intuitive decision tree. The first thing a person thinks when they want to resize something is what pages do I want to resize. After making that decision, then they must decide how do I want to resize them (by page, by standard, scale, etc.). I think this would be a good change (just add my little box to the custom menu so it will insert the current page size ).

[mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap]

"All" in the upper section, essentially records a separate value for each page, allowing you to do something like this:

Wow. I don't think I would have ever figured that out. I hope you have it documented somewhere because that's the only way anyone will figure it out. Like I said above, the only way I'll ever remember some of this stuff is by revisiting this thread.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, mCHSNUg5Pz8cPap

Well, we will have to wait and see what comes, but I am in agreement about normalizing the position of the "which pages to affect" section of the dialogue.

Kind regards,