Save as Optimized Crashes

[PHK]

I would assume that the purpose of the above function is to rationalize large, akward files into something a bit more compact and manageable. Like for instance, a <900-page 575mB file with a mix of images and text? So I tried it one like that several times and each time it crashes the whole computer.

The first 20 or so seconds it shows "Analysis XForm 1,697 of 2,591" and such counting up, then "Optimize Images..." and then freezes for the next 30 or so seconds and then flashes the Blue Screen of Death whereupon there is nothing to do except a full machine restart.

I have had this happen on a few files; not just this particular one. I have made a screen video of this which you might be able to see in this link: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsBVtdXZAI89j_9FXtqNAUvYdeC9Lw?e=AKm5T0 .

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi PHK,

my thoughts are that we need a crash dump. If it is easily reproducible please send us the file in question and we ill test it here. Given the size of the file(s) you may want to use our File Upload service: https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowle ... le-service

Alternatively you can do the crash dump yourself and upload that rather than the offending PDF: https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowle ... estigation

I am keen to reproduce this here, if you can upload the PDF I want to test it.

regards

[PHK]

Just for Forum information, it turns out that my computer would not create a crash dump for the above-reported problems and it could not handle 'large' files for optimization, either. Paul was very quick to deal with me privately via an e-mail dialogue but, without a crash dump file, there was little he could do for me. The source of the problem seems to be my computer, not PDF-XCE.

On the other hand, my inexpensive BestBuy Dell laptop had no problems at all optimizing some large files. So, I guess I've got my work-around. I don't know where to start on diagnosing the problem on my expensive, newish, well-specced PC and I don't have any stomach to do it, either, and I will let my little laptop do the heavy lifting.

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

I would still like to see the error on your main machine addressed.

Would you be amenable to a remote session where we can watch your process and maybe run some tests?

From what we saw it wasn't actually the Editor crashing, but if the Save as Optimized triggered an issue we want know.

What say you?

[PHK]

I would still like to see the error on your main machine addressed.

Would you be amenable to a remote session where we can watch your process and maybe run some tests?

From what we saw it wasn't actually the Editor crashing, but if the Save as Optimized triggered an issue we want know.

What say you?

I say "yes." Paul, I really appreciate your willingness to chase down what might be a local issue. I will be in touch off-forum to see what we can set up.

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

Hi PHK,
This is most probably a hardware issue.
Please send us your %SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP file (zipped).
If you cannot find this file, please run the following command from the Windows command prompt (as Administrator):

Code: Select all

wmic recoveros set DebugInfoType = 7

Make sure it reports success.
Then you should get the mentioned file upon the next system crash.

[PHK]

Thank you, Roman.

I tend to believe it is a hardware problem, too. Mostly likely some sort of conflict arises when the O/S is trying to save the new optimized file.

I will try to do as you suggest. However, the crashes are intemitent and I have not discerned the situational commonalities as yet so it is always a suprise.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, PHK

Well, we will keep an eye out in the meantime for when you come along with one for us. Until then, I hope that you have a great day!

Kind regards,

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

As you already had this crash and presumably there were no system crashes for other reasons, you most likely have the relevant %SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP file already.

Also you can try a system stability test. For example, CPU stress test in CPU-Z utility. Run cpuz_x64.exe as Administrator, and press the Stress CPU button on the Bench tab. Let the test run for at least a period of time that typically takes Save as optimized operation to crash your system.

Also please test your system memory using Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool.

BTW, your video does not show the whole text of the BSOD (system crash screen). I can only see a part of the error code. Is it MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION?
if so, it proves that some of your hardware (most probably CPU or memory) is faulty.

Save As Optimized operation is optimized to run fast and therefore to fully utilize your hardware (especially CPU). This can reveal various hardware defects.

[PHK]

Thanks for those tips Roman.

However, no problems were reported.

image.png

I do not know how to interpret the above but it was steady as shown for several minutes.

As I have written above, I am not stressing about this. Save as Optimized works most of the time on this PC and 'always' on my laptop and I don't have to use the function much, either.

image(1).png

This shows what I am running.

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Thanks for that PHK.

We do like to understand crashes because they can potentially affect others. I'm not sure if Roman will want to take this up further, but whatever happens here , we appreciate your cooperation in trying to get to the bottom of things.

regards

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

Thank you PHK,

I think, if your hardware has a problem, it is better to track it down, otherwise it can cause random obscure failures and data losses in different applications, not only the Editor.

You can try more advanced stability tests:
1. PassMark BurnInTest. The relevant pre-configured tests for this case would be "Max CPU Temp", "CPU Coverage","RAM".
2. Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool ("Functional Test" and "Burn-in Test" pre-configured tests).


For memory test it is better to use the built-in Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool (mentioned in my previous post). It runs "offline" (before OS launch) and has exclusive access to the memory.

[PHK]

Of course, yours is good advice and I am fully respective thereof.

I have downloaded the BurninTest and I have run the 3 tests you recommend for short bursts, rather than the longer runs it seems to want to, I can do longer-run tests later. But, so far, there have been no errors. Temperatures seem stable and range-middle.

I ran the MDT first thing this morning and there were no issues reported after a full 20-30 minute diagnostic period.

I also ran the 3-minute BurninTest and it passed with no errors.

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

Hm... IntelBurnInTest should be able to heat your CPU to a temperature way above middle. Or this test is not so good nowadays...
Well, you can try the second stability test, Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool.
Or try another approach - launch a CPU temperature monitoring application (CoreTemp, for instance), and then, keeping your eye on the CPU core temperatures, run Save As Optimized operation on a large file containing a lot of images (some of your files, that previously resulted in system crashes, should go)? Will you see unusual temperature peaks?

[PHK]

I will try that.

Here is a longer run temperature report that was when I was not at the computer at all! I do not understand why it gets progressively hotter.

image.png

I will turn off for the night and allow it to cool down and see how things look tomorrow.

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

i7 11700kf is known to be a hot CPU that requires a good cooling system.
Did you make any overclocking tweaks in your BIOS?
BTW, please make sure that your BIOS is of the latest version available from your motherboard producer.

[PHK]

i7 11700kf is known to be a hot CPU that requires a good cooling system.
Did you make any overclocking tweaks in your BIOS?
BTW, please make sure that your BIOS is of the latest version available from your motherboard producer.

I thought it came with a good cooling system; it is marketed to 'gamers' which I am not and is supposed to have a liquid cooling system. It has about 3 or 4 fans that I can see.

I have not tweaked the BIOS.

I don't know how to make sure the BIOS is latest version.

Running a test this morning with the BurninTest running in a visible side window, I see that the CPU temperature heads for the ceiling when I initiate a Save-as-Optimized and just before it crashes. When I restart the PC, the CPU is about 72,0C but comes down quickly to its normal level +/-50C. That leads me to believe the SAO process is demanding more of the CPU than it can handle and the PC shuts down at some preset CPU temperature level. This is not absolutely unique to PCE-XCE; I have experienced it in other apps occasionally.

Yes, it definitely looks like a hardware problem. But can PCE-XCE be re-engineered to be less demanding of the CPU? I have crash problems with functions in the app besides SAO for what that's worth. No other app on my machine crashes it more that PCE-XCE.

And I had thought it was a big-file problem: not true. I just tried it with a 70MB file (not large by my standards) and that spiked the CPU temperature and crashed the PC.

[PHK]

More information, see this brief video https://1drv.ms/v/s!AsBVtdXZAI89kIAen6XvpYf08Zpakg?e=0PUel0

The red line is the CPU temperatures. The first spike +/- 70C is a Save as Optimize of a small file. The next spike is the beginning of a SAO on a 500MB file. The computer crashes about 8 seconds into this video when the music literally stops. It seems the CPU temp was headed for the stratosphere and a maximum was reached that triggered the crash.

It took several attempts to get the PC running again, I assume because the CPU was still too hot.

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi PHK,

Roman is the expert here who could tell you if this affects the Save As Optimized tool or not. He isn't available right now. Maybe you want to test reducing the number of cores used?

image.png

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

Hi PHK,

Thank you for the detailed report, appreciate it.
Please tell us your motherboard model. I think we can address this issue based on the information about your motherboard.
Did you install the CPU cooling system yourself? Or you just bought your computer assembled?

The SAO operation is heavily optimized for speed. It tries to utilize every possible bit of performance from the CPU and therefore pushes the CPU to its limits.
We are constantly working to improve performance of our products and to make sure our users' investments into a fast hardware will fully pay off.

[PHK]

@ Paul: Thank you for your interesting suggestion.

I went extreme and elected to run only 1 core and -- guess what? -- SAO worked fine! The only downside was that the rest of the computer did not. It would freeze when trying to do just about anything. I have gone back to automatic. SAO is a low priority for me.

@Roman

Bought assembled, no tweaks.

image.png

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

Hi PHK,
You have a very outdated version of your BIOS. I think it is possible that it does not support your CPU properly, because your CPU was released later than your BIOS.
The latest BIOS installation file for your motherboard is here.
Please see these instructions for the update procedure.

Please let us know the outcome.
If the update itself does not help, please go to the BIOS setup (press F2 when the PC starts) and then make photos of the OC Tweaker and OC Tweaker -> CPU Configuration screens.
Thanks.

[PHK]

That seems to be it!

I followed Roman's instructions and (I suppose) updated my BIOS successfully.

I restarted everything and opened my large 'problem' file and ran Save as Optimized. See below for the annotated Temperature Monitoring graphic that was recording PC performance at the time.

image(1).png

As you can see, it took just about 2 minutes in the file saving part of the process but it did the job without crashing. Before the update, it would crash just after it hit 72C the first time.

Thank you so, so much, Roman for guiding through this process. In addition to sorting out my PDF-XCE problems, this undoubtedly will improve the overall performance of my PC. Again, thank you very much!

Let this be a cautionary tale to all Users to make sure their BIOS is up to date when undertaking PC-stressing processes!

[Roman - Tracker Supp]

You are very welcome, PHK.
Your feedback on this issue was very informative and helped to track it down quickly.

BTW, if you still use Windows 10 in this PC, you can be offered an update to Windows 11. It is because this BIOS update also improves compatibility with Windows 11 hardware requirements.