Couple of Questions

[Lux]

Downloaded the trial version of editor, wanted to test it before I buy it. Originally been using Bluebeam Revu for over 10 years.

1) I noticed I can cut and paste, but I cannot move it, is there a way to move a pasted area onto a sheet?
2) Regarding question #1, can I flatten the image/pdf so my copy cannot be moved after I paste it?
3) Instead of cutting, is there an "erase / delete" function?

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello Lux,

Welcome to our forums!

1) You say that you can not move a pasted object. However if you were able to paste it - you should be able to also move it with the right tools selected. E.g. if you paste a stamp from another file - this would be an annotation and if you have e.g. the "Edit base content" tool selected - you would not be able to select that annotation. So make sure that the right tool is active and all should be good.

2) You can flatten annotations, and that makes them base content, however someone with the right tools can still access the base content items. If you want to prevent modifications to a file - you need to add security to it:
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowledgeba ... -be-edited

3) And if you want to make sure that content is properly removed from a file and can not be recovered with any tools - you need to use redaction:
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowledgeba ... -Redaction

Kind regards,
Stefan

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

As a fellow Revu User, I understand your plight:

1. I noticed I can cut and paste, but I cannot move it, is there a way to move a pasted area onto a sheet?
   • PDF-xChange is different with how it treats objects; in Revu, you have (2) levels: Flattened and unflattened. PDF-xChange has a markups layer, a stamp (i.e., Images) layer, and then you have the flattened layer. Its a pain, but you have to select the correct 'selection tool' i order to select your selection...
   • First thing you want to do is Open up the Preferences --> Tools --> Default Tool --> Make Default Tool to be [Select Text]; this will help you select stuff right away
   • There is also a [Select Text/Image] command, this will let you click on images (with the hand/pan tool activated) and select/grab the image like Revu.
   • There is an 'Edit Content' Menu/Ribbon: look and get familiar with all of those tools as shapes/text/images can be selected independently...
2. Regarding question #1, can I flatten the image/pdf so my copy cannot be moved after I paste it?
   • Yes, when you have it selected, and a context menu should have a Flattened command. (NOTE: you cannot unflatten!)
   • There is also the ability to 'lock' it, so it will not be able to move, but isn't in that final 'flattened' state. Just unlock it if you need to interact with it again.
3. Instead of cutting, is there an "erase / delete" function?
   • There is a [Select and Delete] Command that might serve your purpose.

I am still taking inventory of PDF-Xchange and (with a fair bit of work) am getting it closer to Revu. You can reorganize your menus, create simple toolbars (as utilized in the old Revu17), assign all the keypresses to match the Revu keypress (e.g., keypress [A] to launch the arrow command.

I have a lot of 'Lesson's Learned', so feel free to ask me questions about PDF-Xchange VS. REVU.

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi, ⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

thanks for this, having never used BlueBeam the differences are not something I can speak to, so hearing from someone who has used both is really helpful.

I would personally be interested in 'documenting' (discussing in the forums) what things would help users more easily migrate from BlueBeam to PDF-Xchange.

Your comment here is interesting to me:

• PDF-xChange is different with how it treats objects; in Revu, you have (2) levels: Flattened and unflattened. PDF-xChange has a markups layer, a stamp (i.e., Images) layer, and then you have the flattened layer. Its a pain, but you have to select the correct 'selection tool' i order to select your selection...

It is essentially the same in PDF-XChange, as the ISO specifications dictate base content and annotations being handled differently. Flattening an annotation makes it base content, so there is indeed really only those two 'levels' or 'types' of content. I am interested in understanding more about the differences in usage/perception. Perhaps we can simplify things, or at least make for a smoother transition.

I am still taking inventory of PDF-Xchange and (with a fair bit of work) am getting it closer to Revu. You can reorganize your menus, create simple toolbars (as utilized in the old Revu17), assign all the keypresses to match the Revu keypress (e.g., keypress [A] to launch the arrow command.

Would you be interested in making your customizations public to assist others in their transition?

[Lux]

Hello Lux,

Welcome to our forums!

1) You say that you can not move a pasted object. However if you were able to paste it - you should be able to also move it with the right tools selected. E.g. if you paste a stamp from another file - this would be an annotation and if you have e.g. the "Edit base content" tool selected - you would not be able to select that annotation. So make sure that the right tool is active and all should be good.

The problem I see is that I am using the "Select and Cut" option in the program, once I cut the item I need, I cannot move it.
Ok - I just tried the "edit objects" - and it seems to be working. But I do not see the "flatten" menu when I right click it. I attached a picture of what I see.

flatten.jpg

[Lux]

Greetings,

As a fellow Revu User, I understand your plight:

1. I noticed I can cut and paste, but I cannot move it, is there a way to move a pasted area onto a sheet?
   • PDF-xChange is different with how it treats objects; in Revu, you have (2) levels: Flattened and unflattened. PDF-xChange has a markups layer, a stamp (i.e., Images) layer, and then you have the flattened layer. Its a pain, but you have to select the correct 'selection tool' i order to select your selection...
   • First thing you want to do is Open up the Preferences --> Tools --> Default Tool --> Make Default Tool to be [Select Text]; this will help you select stuff right away
   • There is also a [Select Text/Image] command, this will let you click on images (with the hand/pan tool activated) and select/grab the image like Revu.
   • There is an 'Edit Content' Menu/Ribbon: look and get familiar with all of those tools as shapes/text/images can be selected independently...
2. Regarding question #1, can I flatten the image/pdf so my copy cannot be moved after I paste it?
   • Yes, when you have it selected, and a context menu should have a Flattened command. (NOTE: you cannot unflatten!)
   • There is also the ability to 'lock' it, so it will not be able to move, but isn't in that final 'flattened' state. Just unlock it if you need to interact with it again.
3. Instead of cutting, is there an "erase / delete" function?
   • There is a [Select and Delete] Command that might serve your purpose.

I am still taking inventory of PDF-Xchange and (with a fair bit of work) am getting it closer to Revu. You can reorganize your menus, create simple toolbars (as utilized in the old Revu17), assign all the keypresses to match the Revu keypress (e.g., keypress [A] to launch the arrow command.

I have a lot of 'Lesson's Learned', so feel free to ask me questions about PDF-Xchange VS. REVU.

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

All this greatly helped, just missing the flatten option when i right click on what i cut/pasted.

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

...
All this greatly helped, just missing the flatten option when i right click on what i cut/pasted.

As a quick answer, you are in the base level (the area where all 'flattened' objects are. Thus: no need to flatten as it is 'flattened,' but it is worthwhile to note that you can still interact with it, which is not possible in Revu ).

If you are on the top level, then those options (the option to flatten) will become available.

I'll try to map the levels of Revu VS. Xchange in the next few days.

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

[Lux]

Greetings,

...
All this greatly helped, just missing the flatten option when i right click on what i cut/pasted.

As a quick answer, you are in the base level (the area where all 'flattened' objects are. Thus: no need to flatten as it is 'flattened,' but it is worthwhile to note that you can still interact with it, which is not possible in Revu ).

If you are on the top level, then those options (the option to flatten) will become available.

I'll try to map the levels of Revu VS. Xchange in the next few days.

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

So how do I make it un-interactive? After I cut/copy and paste, I don't want to interact with it, I have over 200 drawings I do daily, which I cut and paste design, I don't want my co-workers to move my items accidentally.

[Willy Van Nuffel]

At my opinion, the only thing you can do, to avoid moving items accidently (when using PDF-XChange Editor), is write-protect your PDF's, like said by Stefan-PDF-XChange.

Kind regards.

Willy

https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowledgeba ... -be-edited

[MishaH]

Hello Lux,

So how do I make it un-interactive?

I think that a great feature called “Rasterize Pages” will help you in this case.
You can learn more about it here:
https://help.pdf-xchange.com/pdfxe10/ra ... es_ed.html
You will have an image on the page that will make it impossible to change the relative position of the objects you added on the page.

Kind regards,
Misha

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello MishaH,

Yes - rasterizing will "do the trick", but it will also make it impossible to later alter things if that becomes necessary. It also usually makes PDF files larger, so protecting the file should be the more "reversible" process, as once rasterized you can not get back to a vector/text file without OCR and maybe manual addition of some other vector objects.

Kind regards,
Stefan

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

I plan on making a thread dedicated to the 'crash course' of (ℛ) Revu --> [🖉] XChange; but in the interim, here is a breakdown on the 'layers':

PDF-XChange_vs_Revu.png

You will notice that the topmost layer (View) is pretty much the same. The Fields/Forms layer is about the same as well, must have the 'special select' in order to interact with those fields. This is where the divergence starts. In my best opinion, the [🖉] "Base Content Layer" IS the (ℛ) "Unflattened" Layer.

It is also noteworthy that you can only "Select All" for the content on the [🖉] "Base Content Layer" and you are only allowed to select one object at a time if you are working on the [🖉] "XForm Layer" or the [🖉] "Comment Layer"

Also, the interface will be a little frustrating at first, but here are (4) things I would recommend:

1. Assign Some Hotkeys (some essential ones would be to select all in the base layer, edit the base layer, and all the markup tools {line, arrow; etc.})
2. In preferences, navigate down to Tools; you will notice the option to have 'select text' as the default tool on startup (vs. the pan/hand)
3. Turn off the [🖈Keep Selected] option - this says to keep inserting the same markup until you hit [Esc]; whereas Revu picks up the pen and stops once you finish inserting a markup.
4. ♛Exclusive Mode - This allows the hand to select text and objects, or be Exclusive to the pan operation.

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

[PHK]

That is fabulous, Kenny! Thank you so much.

[PHK]

...
1) You say that you can not move a pasted object. However if you were able to paste it - you should be able to also move it with the right tools selected. E.g. if you paste a stamp from another file - this would be an annotation and if you have e.g. the "Edit base content" tool selected - you would not be able to select that annotation. So make sure that the right tool is active and all should be good.
...

It might be noted, however, that if the 'object' is a Stamp, it can be pasted to a location on the page and locked and therefore not moveable. If it is a Stamp, the user should check if it is locked

image.png

or not.

image(1).png

[Lux]

I appreciate all the replies, unfortunately revu 'wins' in my opinion, it is a simple right click of a mouse and i can flatten anything i cut/paste, very vital when you have multiple people working on a certain file.

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello Lux,

If you have just pasted a stamp object in a PDF file with our Editor - then a right click -> Flatten is also available with us:

image.png

We've been mentioning a lot of other tools and possibilities, as PDF files are quite complex, and you could be willing to edit different types of objects. If Revu only allows you to flatten annotations, this does not mean that other products (ours included) can not then work with the objects after they were converted to base content.

Kind regards,
Stefan

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

I think below best captures the Flatten of Revu Vs. XChange (Please let me know if you are aware of other features). To the best of my knowledge, you would need to convert the objects into the watermark to "Revu - Flatten" it.

Flatten:
PDF-XChange and Bluebeam Revu approach "Flatten" in drastically different ways. Revu will merge comments into the background, but XChange will convert a comment into a XForm object, which you have abiltiy to interact with an modify. Therefore, there is no 1:1 equivalent to Revu's "Flatten Markup" experience.

• Rasterize Pages: Will take a screencapture of a page, and copy/paste it as an image (can still be moved)
• Custom-script: insert the page as a watermark of itself, will be an image (but CANNOT be moved) ref: viewtopic.php?p=166578#p166578
• Use Flatten Tool: has the effect of not being selected w/ the Select Comments Tool, but can be modified.
• · "Lock" the comment, can be selected but cannot be moved.

Also, I finished putting together the Revu-to-XChange Migration; see here: viewtopic.php?p=189798#p189798

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

[Lux]

Hello Lux,

If you have just pasted a stamp object in a PDF file with our Editor - then a right click -> Flatten is also available with us:
image.png

We've been mentioning a lot of other tools and possibilities, as PDF files are quite complex, and you could be willing to edit different types of objects. If Revu only allows you to flatten annotations, this does not mean that other products (ours included) can not then work with the objects after they were converted to base content.

Kind regards,
Stefan

In Revu i can basically take any .pdf, cut/copy any area, move it to any area in the pdf and just flatten it, I use this multiple times when working on drawings, so when i provide it to the rest of the team, they cannot easily move what i already cut/copied.

With PDF-Xchange, I see I can move stamps, but if I copy/paste an item it won't allow me to flatten, so if I send it to a team member, the item i cut just "hovers" and they can move it freely, making it troublesome that if they work on the .pdf they can accidently move it and won't know where the appropriate item should have been located (talking about CAD drawings here)

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello Lux,

Could it be that the Revu "copy" was actually a snapshot of the area you are "copying" and then it is pasting an image?

Can you please share with us a sample file where you've made such a copy so that I can take a look?

Kind regards,
Stefan

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

For the purpose of this conversation, I think it is best to define our terms:

• Flatten: Keep this a XChange's Function, to Move a markup to the base layer
• Fuse to understructure: Revu's implementation of "Flatten": to make a markup permanent

  • When we choose to flatten markups, we’re basically turning those markups [treated as dry erase on a whiteboard] into a permanent marker and, once saved, we cannot recover the original (
    https://blog.bluebeam.com/flattening-documents-bluebeam-revu/)

  • All markups retain their metadata, a line would still have lineweight to it
  • The only 'interactive' item after the "Fuse to understructure" would be text-edit.
• Snapshot: Keep as XChange's; to screencapture what is shown on screen; paste as JPEG.
• Multiplane Camera: This is Revu's take on snapshot, the user is able to 'copy' baselayer objects exclusively, or 'copy' the baselayer and markup as objects. Copied objects retain all of their metadata, text can be edited after "Fuse to understructure," and line objects will still have lineweights. It is also worthwhile to note that transparency is respected (If 'nothing' is copied, it remains nothing: it is not made as a white box. Finally, this tool supports a lasso function, so you need not draw a rect. selection, but manually trace your target.

To continue the conversation: make this a feature request:
- We seek the ability to see a markup/base content/XForm, but the User has no ability to select/change those items. You can make it that a Locked Layer will prevent user interacting with items on that layer until it is unlocked. It is not so much we have this grand ideal for 'flatten,' we just want the ability to see without the risk of interacting with it (you can think of this request as a window at a zoo: we want to see a Pride of Lions, but we have no desire to pet, touch, pickup, move those giant cats or prey)

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, ⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

I just want to preface this by saying that the concept of "layers" is a bit of a misnomer in relation to PDF.
All content exists on the same plane, and as you have broken down in other posts, it is "Displayed" in a specific order. This order is pre-defined by the PDF-specification. However, All items exist in a purely hierarchical order in relation to those of the same "type". The "first" item will always be behind the second, and so on, while the "move forward/back/to front/back" options manipulate this numerical hierarchy inside a given type. This is why items like form fields always appear overtop other comments (despite technically being comment objects themselves). It is also why all base content is similarly always behind any comments. The Specification dictates that the content-type order is immutable, and that must be maintained.

• Alas, Bluebeam is known for breaking the specification in unique (and often painfully useful) ways, leading most others to a tough spot where we cannot match what they offer without (just like they do) risking damage to your files when any other application tries to modify related content. If they offer ways to forcibly change the order of any of these items, such as allowing a comment to remain a comment object but be rendered behind base content text, they are risking extensive damage to your document in doing so, and we will not mirror such handling unless the specification grants definitions on how it should be implemented to ensure the function is reliably understood.
  This is a core stance with our product, as breaking the specification would prevent us from assuring our clients that the PDF files we make are as universally compatible as possible. This is not something we are willing to do, as we do everything we can to ensure the PDF files we create are as well formed and stable as possible, so that any PDF software out there can understand them properly.

Now, moving on. Regarding the "Fuse to understructure" function you mention.

• The closest we could offer for comments is the ability to "lock" them, which is easily done and undone from the properties pane:
  image.png
  As you may notice in the screenshot, the resize and movement functions are restricted on this comment now, and it cannot be used in such actions without first manually "unlocking" the comment. Do note that according to the specification, this does also lock text editing in text comments, like the typewriter.

Following that, in relation to this "Multiplane camera".

• Technically, base content and comments are very distinct items, and should not be able to be modified at the same time. Some of our competitors, like Adobe offer methods to use a single tool which can interchangeably select either or, but you will likely notice that (apart from a few notable exceptions, like "highlights") it cannot select and manipulate both at the same time.
  For this reason, we do not offer the ability to select, copy, or otherwise manipulate such compilations either, and instead choose to clearly differentiate the two tools, and their capabilities. (With that said, we have been looking into mirroring Adobe's handling of special text-adjacent items like highlights, though I cannot promise anything there at the moment).

Finally Relating to your request about locking layers.

• This goes back to my mention that in PDF, "layers" is a misnomer. Though in this context, instead of it being an extrapolation about the core content types, it is actually referring to the object "layers" and the "layers pane" present in our software and most others.
  https://www.pdf-xchange.com/knowledgeba ... ers-in-PDF
  This article explains that side of things in more words, but the summary is that these "layers" in PDF should actually be called "optional content visibility groups". As that is all they are intended for, and all the Spec allows of them. When a "layer" is locked, the only item that is restricted is the visibility "toggle". We cannot add any additional functions to it at this time, because the specification does not allow for any more than this. Attempting to do so could result in unwanted locking/unlocking of comments in files which are configured with common visibility rules in place, and that could be problematic. There is also no way to store any data which could indicate when to or not to do that in the file itself, as once again, we are limited by what the spec allows.

In an effort to make this misnomer more transparent, I have spoken with the Dev team and we will be adjusting the name of the layers pane, to hopefully make the intent of these items a bit more clear.

Kind regards,

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

I have no great loyalty to the "Layers " (i.e., optional content visibility groups); Not even Revu could 'lock comments' from edit on a 'layer.' If functionality is not easily applied to layers, no issue; I'll rather focus on our closest solution at hand, the [🗩⚿ Lock Comment] feature:

...The closest we could offer for comments is the ability to "lock" them, which is easily done and undone from the properties pane...

I understand the dilemma, but to the main point: the desire is to have objects frozen in place. Yes, the [🗩⚿ Lock Comment] is 50% there; the only outstanding item is that the locked items can still be selected with ease.

If you can, consider: revise the ｢Select Comments｣ tool to "Select, move, edit, and resize UNLOCKED Comments Only;" this will provide the "Revu Migrants" a tool on par to the "Fuse to understructure" functionality of Revu's Flatten. As you mentioned, these comments can still be accessed/unlocked (through the comment pane at minimum); but I think at this point, you will have a mixed group of reactions to this: some people upset that it isn't permanent, but others who would love the ability to 'release a frozen comment' and to rework with it as a normal markup (as needed); I would be in the late group myself.

Finally, to "Multiplane camera" feature of Bluebeam's Snapshot tool:
- I would say Revu implemented this approach:

1. Launch tool: user can set target boundaries by: 1)Click'n-drag a selection box ᴼᴿ 2)Draw a polygon, point-by-point
2. will copy/consider/cache all XForm/Containers partially captured by the selection of (part a)
   • OPTIONAL: Allow consideration of Markups/comments: tool to convert comments to Baselayer, stack-on top of current items on base-layer (i.e., automates a copy-comment, and then convert comment to base-layer)
3. upon paste command: insert a group of objects onto the comment/markup level (a group that cannot be exploded; a group that has data/metadata outside of the 'visible' selection of (part a), but will hide it from view) - This will behave like a stamp/image (but have quality of metadata/object/vector graphics)
4. Upon the 'flatten' command, will send to base-layer and will behave as all other XForm objects.

May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ
=========================================================================
PS: Thank you Dan for listening to our concerns in earnest; we appreciate it.

[Daniel - PDF-XChange]

Hello, ⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

I understand the dilemma, but to the main point: the desire is to have objects frozen in place

I had a similar idea to yours, possibly offering a mode in which "locked" or "readonly" comments could only be selected by a direct "click" on that item, and any group/drag selection actions would ignore them. Sadly after a chat with the Dev team any distinction of these properties is much more easily said than done. They have agreed to look into options and see what we can do, but are refraining from making any promises, as it may not be feasible.

Regarding the second task,
If the end result is that all of the content is new base content, this can be done in a slightly roundabout way, but with the complexity of properly selecting multiple content types at once, I cannot promise that there will be any changes made here, so the below may be the only method for some time.
For now, here is a workaround.

1. Select the comments in the area, "Right click > flatten selected"
2. With the "Edit content" tool enabled, drag a selection box around the area.
3. Copy (Ctrl_C) like usual - This will store the fully base content selection in the clipboard.
4. Undo (Ctrl_Z) the flattening action (step 2) to revert the current comments back to normal.
5. Head to the new target location, and paste (Ctrl_V) as normal - You now have a duplicate of the area, with the comment items converted to base content.

I think this will accomplish the jist of what you have described, with our current functions. It is also worth noting that you can use the "selection > Select page region" function in step 2, in order to grab partial items, like half of a flattened highlight and the text it overlays.

Kind regards,

[Lux]

Hello Lux,

Could it be that the Revu "copy" was actually a snapshot of the area you are "copying" and then it is pasting an image?

Can you please share with us a sample file where you've made such a copy so that I can take a look?

Kind regards,
Stefan

This is indeed correct how it works, it "cuts" the area, creates the image of that, and i can flatten it. The "cutted" area is blank, it is an illusion that it actually cuts and moves it, but what it does it erases it from that area, creates a new image, and you can flatten it.

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello Lux,

Can I please have a sample of one such page where you've 'cut' such content with their tool? I want to see whether they really remove the original content or just hide it.

You can achieve the same with the Editor, but we offer more tools than just such a "Snapshot as an image part of the content and then redact out the original location". Also if you later need to edit those objects you copied you would not be able to if they are an image.

Kind regards,
Stefan

[⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ]

Greetings,

...Can I please have a sample of one such page where you've 'cut' such content with their tool? I want to see whether they really remove the original content or just hide it....

ReuvCutContentFeature.pdf

PDF-XChange_RevusCutTool.png

See attached. The content is not so much hidden as much as it becomes background data/transparent or ghost objects.


May this be of Good Help;
⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello ⚜ Kenny Lemens, P.E. ᵂᴵ,

Thanks for the sample - it seems like they are adding a "mask" over the area - so it seems like it has been cut, but as per your example - the text is still there, and when flattened the whole text can be seen and copied/Edited.

I will ask our devs to take a look, however I do not think we are looking at implementing a similar type of cut feature.

p.s. Our devs told me that this might be looked at in the distant future, but there are no plans for it to be considered any time soon.

Kind regards,
Stefan