Feature request; insert arc

[regillisch]

Hello

It is possible to insert circles, lines, rectangles etc. - but it is not possible to insert arcs.
The idea is a feature "Insert arc" by clicking three times: start point, end point and the last point between these two points defines the bend.

Best regards

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello regillisch,

I am afraid that the PDF Specification does not include arc segments as a kind of shape - so it's not possible to create an arc as such in our Viewer, but you can however use the circle tool - and create the circle or ellipse that will match your shape, and can then place e.g. a white rectangle over it to hide a portion of the shape - and therefor leave a result that looks like an arc.

Best,
Stefan

[regillisch]

Hi Stefan

This is one way. But this hide the text on the original too.
My workaround is to make an circle/ellipe and then I hide the not needed part of the circle/ellipse with a white polygon close to the circle/ellipse.

It was only an idea to simplify my work.

Thanks
Best regards

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello regillisch,

I am afraid that we can't do much here - it's just the specification that does not support such shapes.

Regards,
Stefan

[regillisch]

Hello Staefan

Its OK for me for the moment.

Regards

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

[benradu]

Can I throw an idea here?
How about creating a custom stamp containing the arc you want and with transparent background.
After you place it on your pdf you can re-size it the way you want to get whatever appearance you need.
Regards,
Ben

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello Ben,

Thanks for your input, but I do not think this will be quite usable, as each ark could be a different section of an arbitrary ellipse, and as such would require separate stamps. Also in the creation of these arcs you will need to use specialised software that can define those curves without the need to use a circle/elipse and a rectangle to hide a portion of the shape - as if you are using a rectangle to hide - even if you put that in a stamp - the rectangle will still be visible - or if it's transparent it will not do it's job to hide a fraction of the circle/elipse itself.

Best,
Stefan

[Gerhard Mesenich]

Arcs would be possible by just 'inking' these as a series of dense points. This is the usual way doing it to overcome the pdf limitations. All shapes could actually be inked so that they could be partially erased at ease and would thus model the common pen/eraser much better. The additional data does usually not cause serious problems; a densly handwritten page generated this way adds typically ca. 100-300Kb of data. For data reduction the paths could also be modeled as beziers (LaTex, eps).

Look at Xournal or Ipe as good open source examples, which are doing ink and shapes nicely on pdfs.

Best regards,
Gerhard Mesenich

[Jamie - Tracker Supp]

Thanks for your input Gerhard.

Regards,
Jamie

[Gerhard Mesenich]

Hi Jamie,

first thanks for a very nice program and giving it away for free! I hadn't looked for a while, just tested the latest build and I am quite impressed by the progress pdf-Xchange Viewer it has made. I have just tried it on a tabletPC; it still has a few minor issues, which most likely can be easily fixed:

Handwriting:

The data reduction seems to be overdone for pen use, the program should always use the full resolution of the pen (pen interface), which is about 5 times better than the screen resolution. Probably the pen is only used in mouse mode here, where the resolution suffers (screen px resolution).

Also there are unpleasant sharp edges at the points where the paths reverse. This can be eliminated, if the paths are modeled with a round shape, just as a normal pen, same diameter as the line width. With these simple changes the program would make a nice notetaking application too.


Additional nice features:

Arcs - as already suggested

All standard shapes (lines, ellipses, rectangles) could be just 'inked', to be partially erasable without complication. Arcs could then be made from circles too.

Hatching fills in addition to the color fills for engineering annotations

Layers

A resettable Coordinate window (0-Button) with adjustable scale factor on the status line.

Some nice background 'papers' (1,2,5mm squared) with margin for notetaking and sketching, bound to the grid.

Pen, line width: additional 0.7pt and 1.4pt for better appearance, 1.4pt (normal pencil width) could be the standard setting.

eps export for use of the sketches in other programs.


I have attached a simple example of one of my engineering notes, made with Xournal to show some of the possibilities. With a few enhancements this could be possible with pdf-Xchange Viewer too.

Regards,
Gerhard

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi Gerhard Mesenich,

regards the Pencil Tool for hand writing, (I am assuming you are using the Pencil Tool here), this tool is defined in the PDF specifications as a curve with smoothing. This can radically change the look of hand written comments. In the new version of the Viewer we will incorporate a special adaptive algorithm for smoothing of curves to address this. We cannot turn off smoothing without breaking compliance with the PDF Standard. I suggest you evaluate the new Pencil Tool when V3 is released.

Arcs and hatching are already on the 'wish list' - no set date for implementation yet.

Layers: we will implement layers in the new version. "Providing the ability for multiple users to comment on a document using separate layers"

A resettable Coordinate window (0-Button) with adjustable scale factor on the status line.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this, the sample provided didn't make that clear to me. We are planning a 'CAD' plugin for after the initial release of V3 and this might be an appropriate place to implement this. Can you describe in more detail how you would envisage this working? We will be adding calibration to the Measurement tools.

I have added the pen line width, backgrounds and eps support to the wish list. Please understand that adding things to the wish list is not a promise to deliver said feature. It is however a committment to seriously looking into it.

hth

[Gerhard Mesenich]

Hi Paul,

thanks for considering.

Handwriting:

I just had a closer look. The problem seems to be that the pen tool is intended to be used for handwriting and markups as well. For markups with big line widths it looks good with a square end cap as is. For handwriting however it needs a round end cap. With the square end cap the pen currently often makes very sharp triangular shaped ends on reversals. Smoothing does not seem to be the main culprit here.

Both functions should be separated into separate tools:

pen - end cap should be round for a decent handwriting and sketching appearance,
best linewidths: 0.5, 0.7, 1, 1.4, 2pt (log. scaling, factor 1.4, 2pt is quite fat, 1pt or 1.4pt is normal),
witdh above 3pt (1mm) will almost always look ugly here and should not be selectable with the pen.

markup - seems to be covered by the text marker already, here a square end cap is appropriate.

Handwriting appearance (tabletPC) is the most serious issue for me right now and the only reason I am not using the program regularly yet. Also snapping should be unconditionally off during handwriting (pen selection). This would eliminate otherwise frequent switches between the snap modes.


x-y Coordinates:

Real world coordinates would ease the sketching of simple mechanisms, floorplans and such. The user is usually interested in relative coordinates from a reference point in his drawing. To show these an appropriate scale factor with x-y offset in regard to the internal coordinates is needed.

Pts coordinate origin is bound to the page corner. From this the x-y offset to the intended reference point has to be calculated first. This reference point would be set by selecting a zero function first, then just moving the pen there, best done with snap active, and then just zeroing in there with a tip/left mouse button press. This would then generate the x-y offset relative to the internal coordinate system. From then on all coordinates shown would be relative to this new reference point until reset again with another.

There could be just 2 small x-y windows on the statusbar, some common predefined scale factors (1:1 mm being the most common here) selectable with a menu and the reset function button next to it for intuitive operation. Calibration would only be needed for non-standard scalings, but should be there if needed. For just taking measurements the current measuring tool works very well already. Non-standard scale factors could best be taken from there.


Additional feature, angular snap:

The line and polyline tools could have angular snaps of 5 and 15deg (snap to the start point with angle restriction) in addition to the current 45 deg, which would make them more universal.


Minor appearance features:

The green arrows in the bookmark window look somewhat distracting for my taste, they seem to be superfluous and might well be left out or only be shown as an option.

The grid is currently in front of the document, it would probably be nicer below.


Sample:

The formerly attached sample does not show the coordinate feature; it was just intended as food for thought to show what would be possible with a good pen integration and only minor changes to the program (notetaking). On a well setup tabletPC such notes can be made better looking and faster than on paper.


Waiting for the new release with high expectation, thanks for your responsiveness!

Best regards,
Gerhard

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi Gerhard Mesenich,

thanks for the added detail. I must point out that much of this is very specific to certain users and as such we most likely would not add all this to the general Viewer. We have tried hard to listen to our users and 'Feature bloat' is frequently cited as a reason for moving away from other PDF software so if we were to implement some of your recommendations they would likely be as a plugin rather than a core feature.

Waiting for the new release with high expectation, thanks for your responsiveness!

You are welcome, we like to listen. Also I don't want you under any false expectations. It is too late in the development of the new version to include anything from this thread, what I have promised is to evaluate the practicality of implementing them. I cannot promise what the results of this will. This is definitely long term.

hth

[Gerhard Mesenich]

Fine with me,

Regards,
Gerhard

[Paul - PDF-XChange]