Feature Request: Rename "open" files :)

[David.P]

Hi Forum and Tracker team,

I'd like to propose a feature that would come in really handy in my view.

Often, in order to see what a PDF file is actually about, obviously you have to open it.

Then, while reading or redacting the file, you might come to the conclusion that the file must be saved in a different location. Or, imagine you want to sort a number of PDF files into different folders, depending on content.

For this, it would be great if any currently open PDF file could be moved into another folder without having to first close it, going to Windows Explorer, find the file, move it to the new folder, going to the new folder, and open it again in order to continue to work with it.

In the same way, open files also could be renamed. It happens to me every day that I am reading a PDF file and find that I need to rename it in order to give it a more useful title. In this case, either I have to close the file, go to windows explorer, find the file, rename it, and then reopen it in PDF-XChange Editor. Another way is to save the file under a different name, and then hopefully remember to delete the previous copy afterwards.

I am of course aware that you can't really move/rename an open file

However, if a menu command could be added like "File" -> "Move/Rename", PDF-XChange Editor quickly could close the currently viewed file, move it to the desired location, rename it if necessary, and then re-open it with the same page view and zoom setting. Or, if that should not be possible, technically, save the current file at the desired location and/or with the new name, and then simply delete the previous copy.

This probably would take less than two seconds typically, and all from within PDF-XChange Editor.

Working with PDF files would be so much easier if they could be renamed and or moved while viewing them, like described above.

Thanks very much for consideration!

Regards
David.P
--
PS: It would also be very useful if any currently open PDF file could be simply deleted from within PDF-XChange Editor!

[Willy Van Nuffel]

You can also move, rename and even delete files when in the File > Open-dialogbox of any application in Windows.
So, you do not need to switch to Windows Explorer.
Simply do a File > Close in PDF-XChange Editor, immediatly followed by a File > Open, where you can do the move and/or rename of the file that you just closed before. And, if you like so, when moved and/or renamed, you are still in the File > Open-dialogbox, and you can again open that same file with its new name and from within its new location.
Maybe this can help, and let us also wait for ideas and advise from Tracker support.
Regards.

[David.P]

I know that it is possible to do that in the "Open File" dialog. However this is almost as clumsy and tedious as the Windows Explorer way described above, if not more. Additionally, if you do a "File -> Open", you don't end up in the directory of the file you just closed but at some other folder most of the time.

What you are proposing also doesn't work if you are in a directory with many files, since it is even more awkward and difficult to find the file that you actually want to rename or delete in the open file dialog in this case.

Therefore it would be far more comfortable and easy to be able to rename, delete and/or move a file directly from within the actual file itself, as displayed in PDF-XChange Editor.

You could even have "Delete File", "Rename File" and "Move File" buttons on the toolbar of PDF-XChange Editor, which would be an incredibly useful feature, if you work with dozens to hundreds of PDF files on a daily basis.

Regards David.P

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

It is best to do this from Windows Explorer. You can see at least the first page in the Preview Pane. If you want to see more, then double-click to check it in PDF-XChange, then close it.

If a file is already open, then it's protected from moving, renaming, or deleting.

[David.P]

Obviously you have not even read my posts. What you have answered is completely pointless, with regard to my feature request.

Regards
David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the posts and suggestion.

David - while this may technically be possible, it may not be practical. When a file is opened by an application that is capable of modifying it, it is locked down and it cannot be moved or renamed. While there is nothing that technically requires us to lock the file down, it's potentially impractical if there are multiple users accessing the same file on, say, a network share. One user could decide that the file needs to be renamed and we would have to then unblock the file for a moment and, in that moment, large discrepancies in the file could arise that we cannot compensate for.

I will pass the suggestion along, but I suspect that this will be something that the Dev. Team feel impractical to implement.

Cheers,

[David.P]

Hello Will and thank you for your reply,

it seems that everyone is overlooking the part where I have written how this can be done without fiddling with or unlocking open files:

If a menu command could be added like "File" -> "Move/Rename", PDF-XChange Editor quickly could close the currently viewed file, move it to the desired location, rename it if necessary, and then re-open it with the same page view and zoom setting. Or, if that should not be possible, technically, save the current file at the desired location and/or with the new name, and simply delete the previous copy.

...and of course then, re-open the renamed/relocated file.

Best Regards
David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi David,

Apologies, I'd meant to address that part as well but must have gotten caught up in the specifics of the other part.

Not being a developer myself, I cannot comment on whether or not this is possible (I suspect that it may be). I suspect that the main barrier would be one of practicality. Again, I will have to leave that to the Dev. Team to address.

I hope that you don't feel that I'm pushing your suggestion aside without giving it due consideration, because it's something that I would personally like to see as well. I regularly do exactly what you're doing and in Windows 8, I've found this to be extremely tedious as File Explorer (Microsoft's strange new version of Windows Explorer) frequently hangs while doing this from the Save As dialogue, where it is often most convenient to shuffle/rename files.

As I said, I will pass this along and will do what I can, but ultimately, the decision is going to be up to John (CEO) and the Dev. Team.

Cheers,

[David.P]

Thank you Will. Actually, I am sure that this ("rename/move open file") in some (admittedly distant) future will be standard behavior of applications.

You can already see it if you write a document in Google Docs.

There, you can rename, move and delete the open file.

Which is a great thing™

Of course Google docs are different, technically. However from a usability point of view, that feature is priceless. And since PDF-XChange Editor is as gloomily advanced with regard to other PDF software as Google is to his competitors, I thought you could be the first, worldwide, to implement this killer feature in a normal application

Thanks again
Best Regards David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Not a problem David.

The biggest hurdle would be working out the best way to do implement this so that changes made to the same file by multiple users are registered probably. Google Docs. does an admittedly great job of this, but you're right, they are very different in many ways.

[David.P]

Thanks again Will,

however your honor :

changes made to the same file by multiple users are registered probably

...is something that is not possible anyway with files on operating systems.
(only with cloud services like Google Docs)

Since you can't edit any file by multiple users at the same time anyway, this also does not pose a hurdle to the feature under consideration. There is absolutely no difference between you renaming a file in Windows Explorer, or from within PDF-XChange Editor (e.g. by doing a "save as" under a different name, and then deleting the original file).

The ONLY difference is that it would be much easier and elegant if PDF-XChange Editor had menu commands for it

Cheers David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi David,

I believe that technically speaking, it is possible (though I cannot confirm that at this time). In order to highlight the problem with even your suggestion, consider the following hypothetical scenario:

4 users are all working on the same file, all on different computers. Users 1 through 3 are simply reading the file, User 4 is editing it. User 1 decides that it isn't named correctly and so uses this new feature to rename the file. How should the file then be presented to the other 3 users? Also, what happens with User 4's edits when they try to save them? How should that be handled now that the file has a different name? The situation gets more confusing if the file is moved, rather than renamed.

While any such feature that renames/moves an open file is great when we're talking about 1 user, it's very difficult to effectively manage when there are multiple users working on the same file, even if done the way that you have suggested. So the issue of practicality still remains, but I'm sure that if we can come up with a practical way to implement this, that doesn't consitute a large risk of causing potentially fatal issues, it's something that we will certainly seriously consider implementing.

Cheers,

[David.P]

Thanks for the scenario Will,

however, the feature is by no means different from renaming the file in Windows Explorer.

If you rename or move a file in Windows Explorer, everyone else will not be able to find it anymore, just as well

What's more, as long as a file is viewed also by someone else, it can't be moved or renamed anyway. Be it in Windows Explorer or from within PDF-XChange Editor.

So you see, there will be no new problem at all with multiple users (with regard to this feature).

Best Regards
David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi David,

What's more, as long as a file is viewed also by someone else, it can't be moved or renamed anyway. Be it in Windows Explorer or from within PDF-XChange Editor.

So you see, there will be no new problem at all with multiple users (with regard to this feature).

So is your suggestion to only make the feature functional when only one user has the file opened?

Cheers,

[David.P]

So is your suggestion to only make the feature functional when only one user has the file opened?

Thanks Will, this is implicit, since it is not possible to rename, move or delete an open file under any normal circumstances, be it manually or by an application (like for example PDF-XChange Editor).

You will simply get the well known OS error message saying that the file is open at another location, in all cases, also with the new feature.

Even as it is now (i.e. without that feature) in your scenario, when user #4 edits the file and others view the file, no one (including user #4) will be able to even save the file, let alone move, rename or delete it.

So again, no problem at all here.

Best Regards
David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi David,

Okay, understood. The request is noted and will be passed on for evaluation

[David.P]

That is great. Thanks Will.

[Will - Tracker Supp]

[power1]

@David.P: I use Sumatra PDF for that purpose. When it opens a pdf file, it does not lock the file, so I can rename it in Windows Explorer.

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi power1,

Thanks for the suggestion - that's correct, Sumatra doesn't look the files down and this is because it isn't able to make any changes to the document, as it doesn't have the necessary tools.

Cheers,

[David.P]

Similarly, I use the PDF-XChange Editor viewer Plugin in the preview pane of my file manager to view PDF files, and possibly rename them while viewing.

However, often the need for renaming/moving comes up while working with a PDF file (redacting, commenting...).

This is the use case where renaming/moving/deleting the currently open file while working with it would be great.

click to try

Best Regards
David.P

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi David,

thanks for all the input on this. Your feature request is a great suggestion. I would personally also like to see something like this in the Editor, however....

The development team have looked at this and while it may possible to do what you suggest the consensus is that this is feature request simply does not warrant the required investment in time to implement at this juncture. There are literally far too many "bigger fish to fry" to make this a priority.

We do have this on the 'ToDo List' and given the complexity of it's implementation, the very large list of other tasks at hand and the relatively few requests we have had for this (I believe you are the only one to have asked this to date) it simply isn't going to happen soon.

Don't stop giving us your feedback and ideas, that's how we grow. It may happen, just not in the immediate future.

hth

[David.P]

All understood, Paul. I also see this like a medium to long term feature.

However thinking about it, I don't see that this should be complex to do...

Actually, I might go about tonight and code this for myself in like ~three lines of Autohotkey in the meantime

by simply automating a...

Code: Select all

copy old file name
save file copy under new name or location
delete original

...action and assigning a hotkey to it

Cheers David.P

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi David,

that sounds great - I'd certainly like to hear how that goes. Implementing it in the Editor as a built in feature may look trivial but it opens a number of "can's of worms" so to speak. Yes, as you point out over the course of this thread that Windows handles much of it but to put it into production I'm told requires a little more than the logic presented. Perhaps it is more useful to think of the other reasons as why this decision was made, if that helps, simply that there are a lot more things we need to attend to first.

Either way - I'd be keen to see what you come up with!

regards

[David.P]

Hello Paul,

thank you for your reply and your continued efforts in discussing this matter.

Implementing it in the Editor as a built in feature [...] opens a number of "can's of worms" so to speak.
[...]
To put it into production I'm told requires a little more than the logic presented.

Mainly out of curiosity, I'd be interested which "can's of worms" and additional logic still could be involved here. I honestly am convinced that this feature requires nothing else than a trivial

Code: Select all

Save Current File "as Copy", then Delete Original File

...operation. The open file does not even have to be closed to do that.

Perhaps it is more useful to think of the other reasons as why this decision was made, if that helps, simply that there are a lot more things we need to attend to first.

That is of course fully understood.

Regards David.P

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi David,

the can of worms is with compatibility with file systems other than SMB (Windows). On the surface, yes this may be possible and one could rely on the Windows API to report if a file is locked from other users for example. We are building support for opening files directly from SharePoint and Google Drive for example. These file systems are not the same and the feature you are asking of could potentially cause problems with them.

Your persistence is impressive. Despite misgivings the team have agreed to see if they can do something about this. If a simple thing can be done it may be possible for the next build or two. We are not making any promises yet. We'll let you know what comes of this.

hth

[David.P]

Hello Paul,

don't get me wrong, I am far from forcing this feature upon you or the developers -- I'm only trying to clarifiy that this feature is exactly and only the same as if you manually do the following:

1. you open a PDF file in PDF-XChange Editor
2. you decide it needs a different name
3. you save it under that different name
4. you delete the previous file, in order not to have two copies of the file

...only with much reduced effort, especially without having to do the "delete previous file" step #4 manually.

The above once more in pseudo code:

Code: Select all

- User requests to rename the currently open file "XYZ" to "ABC"
- PDF-XChange Editor saves the open file "XYZ" under the requested new name "ABC" to disk
- PDF-XChange Editor deletes the original file "XYZ" from disk

So there is absolutely no difference between the manual procedure and the automatic procedure (as suggested with this feature request), regarding file systems, potentially locked files etc.

Sorry, only wanted to make sure that this is clear to everyone, since this feature request really is absolutely trivial -- as dangerous as the "rename open file" title might sound

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Thanks for the clarification on how you see it David, lets see what they come up with.

Regards

[David.P]

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

[drclark]

+1 for feature request to rename open files. To clarify, this could be stated "rename the active file".

I propose to assign the rename function to shortcut key "F2", which is the shortcut key used by Windows Explorer.

IrfanView has this feature, for renaming the image in the viewer (with shortcut key F2). I use it all the time to rename photo and graphic files.

As pointed out by David.P, in any case where the file is open by other users, the rename function would return an error, and do nothing.

The rename implementation could also be simplified by only working for unmodified files. If the open file had unsaved changes, the rename function could just return an error message: "File has unsaved changes. Save the file before renaming".

[David.P]

I fully agree with the additional thoughts on this by drclark. Using the F2 shortcut that is used in many programs to rename the active file is also a very good idea.

Regards David.P

[Will - Tracker Supp]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the additional comments - I'll make sure that they're passed on.

Cheers,

[David.P]

Thank you Will

[Will - Tracker Supp]

[David.P]

Another little supplement for this feature request.

When opening the current file from PDF-XChange Editor in another installed PDF program using the "File" -> "Launch" command (or the respective toolbar button):

...PDF-XChange Editor also could intermediately free up (= close) the current file.

This way, one could do whatever wanted in the other PDF program, for example use the (admittedly insanely good) Ad*be Clearscan OCR function:

...and afterwards simply close (saving) the file in the other PDF program. PDF-XChange Editor then could simply re-open the saved file quickly (with the changes made in the other PDF program, here OCR'ed) with the same page view and zoom settings as before.

This way, those other PDF programs that interestingly still exist around could actually be made into little helpers for the grand master of all PDF programs, which is of course PDF-XChange Editor.

Best Regards
David.P

[Patrick-Tracker Supp]

Hello David,

Thank you for the follow up suggestion. We will take it into consideration.

[David.P]

Thank you Patrick

[John - Tracker Supp]

[David.P]

(click to enlarge)

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

[David.P]

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

[Odd Ramos]

I just wanted to say that Tracker support team in these forums and developers are already awesome and continue to remain so no matter if rename/move/delete functionality for pdfs opened in PDF-XChange Editor ever gets implemented or not.

However, I do believe that for people managing hundreds of pdfs daily this feature would be extremely handy and that there are much more PDF-XChange Editor users hanging out there in the wild secretly dreaming of this feature.

I'd also like to send special shout outs to David.P - You're not alone my friend!

[David.P]

Hi Ramos and thank you for the friendly follow-up

For completeness, the summarized current status of all threads related to this feature request can be found here.

And I made a new screenshot that looks a bit more up to date:


Best regards,
David

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hey guys,

let me take this to the team one more time. Personally I like the rename idea too.

[Paul - PDF-XChange]

Hi again guys,

we had a discussion about this again and I am told it is not as simple to do this for PDF files as it is for the text files that Notepad++ handles. There is a lot more to consider and it is not trivial. We actually have 3 feature requests for this in our system so it is a well document request to say the least.

It is still however going to be a low priority because of the amount of work involved and no amount of badgering on my part is about to change that.

At least it is not completely written off.

[David.P]

Hmm...

we had a discussion about this again and I am told it is not as simple to do this for PDF files as it is for the text files that Notepad++ handles. There is a lot more to consider and it is not trivial.

It might eventually be implemented - as my colleagues told me it is not complicated to do from a technical point of view.

I honestly am convinced that this feature requires nothing else than a trivial

Code: Select all

Save Current File "as Copy", then Delete Original File

...operation. The open file does not even have to be closed to do that.

Since we have been discussing this for years and it still is not clear whether (or why) the implementation is (not) easy, maybe the developers can drop by on occasion and add some more clarification?

I am probably repeating myself, but in my view this is as straightforward as "Save a copy, then delete original" operation that can be done easily with any file type.

Keep up the great work
David

[Stefan - PDF-XChange]

Hello David and all,

Paul and I have just been passing along the information our colleagues in the Dev Team have given us, and apparently at different points in time, the statement has been different too!
I have now asked the Project leader for the Editor to review this and share his thoughts and opinion on this, and we will then post here his hands on reasons for or against this feature!

Regards,
Stefan

[David.P]

Thank you Stefan for coordinating the state of things in this question.

Looking forward to hearing the Editor project leader's thoughts on this,

Best regards,
David